Saturday, 21 January 2012

The Ashtanga 'Rishi series'

'Originally there were five series: Primary, Intermediate, Advanced A, Advanced B, and the fifth was the “rishi” series'.
Nancy Gilgoff 'Yoga as it was'

This line at the end of Nancy's article, that I posted earlier in the week, drew a few comments.

What is the rishi series?

I remembered reading something interesting about this a couple of years ago but couldn't remember where. So I hit google obviously. this came up a couple of times from befityoga

The Rishi Sereis – The final series is the Rishi Series, a Rishi is one who knows. At this point in our lives we are about 60 years old and our body knows what it needs. In the Rishi series you choose 10 poses and hold each one for 50 breaths. Now if you begun Ashtanga Yoga in your 50’s you can not get to 60 and say “now I can do the Rishi Series”. You need to put in your time (practice, practice, practice) learning this method prior to the Rishi Sereis. I started this practice at 30 years of age and it has taken me 10 years to get to the Third series!
2007 Bobbi Misiti | BeFit Body & Mind YOGA http://www.befityoga.com/yfocus_may07.shtml

Interesting but not the one I remembered...

The next one was from Alex Medin on Ashtanga.com


'The last four series are the Advanced A, B, C, and D sequences--in Sanskrit called the Sthira Bhaga (Centering of Strength). These postures aim to center the body/mind/nervous system in a greater steadiness from within, but these postures should only be attempted after years of practice. Without a solid grounding in the practice it is easy to cause more harm than good to the body/mind/nervous system from the sheer intensity of the postures. This sequence is also called the "Rishi" sequence since names from many of the famous sages of the Vedas are found here'.

http://www.ashtanga.com/html/article_medin_alex.html

Again no, not the one I was searching for. Finally I found it and not surprisingly it was David Williams, which ties in with the quote from Nancy at the beginning of this post, it was to Nancy and David that Jois gave the list of the different series.

This came up then as a question on David's website forum

Hi David,
........There was one thing I remember but am hoping you can shed some more light on, you mentioned a practise where ten postures are held for fifty breaths each, could you tell me more about the structure and contents of that practise (postures etc).
Aidie


Dear Adrian,
Nice to hear from you and I am glad that you enjoyed the workshop...so did I.
Doing a practice of 10 postures for up to 50 breaths is a method of preparing for "advanced series" after one has learned 1st and 2nd.  It can be done once or twice a week.  One does the "salutations" and then starts going thru the series, holding each posture for as long as comfortably possible.  Notice which postures could be held for 50 breaths.  The next time you practice this way, the postures which you could hold for 50 are omitted and new ones are added at the end.  One gradually works thru the series, dropping and adding asanas, still doing 10 asanas per session.  I have gone all the way thru 1st and 2nd this way several times over the years and have found it beneficial.
Then, once one has mastered all of the asanas, one can practice "the rishi series", the most advanced practice.  One does the 10 postures that one intuits will be the most beneficial and appropriate for that day, holding each posture for up to 50 comfortable breaths.  
I hope this is clear.  Please feel free to ask further questions.  
All the best to you.
Yours in Yoga,
David (Williams)
http://tinyurl.com/7wq66bs

Durvasana
So there we have it, the rishi series, worth exploring I think so expect a few posts.

In a sense Vinyasa Krama has a rishi if not series then approach, here's Ramaswami talking about utkatasana in the context of YS II:46 STHIRA-SUKHAM ASANAM,

'When one is able to stay in the posture (utkatasana) for three to six breaths, then one should slowly increase the time to complete a stipulated number of breaths. Thereafter, one should remain in the posture for a predetermined number of breaths chosen by the practitioner or teacher, or for a fixed persiod, say three to five minutes. Then one's practice should be aimed at reducing the number of breaths while remaining in the posture for the same duration. for instance one may take a total of twenty breaths while in the posture. Later on, it may be possible to remain in the posture steadily and comfortably (sthira and sukha) for five minutes with perhaps only ten breaths. This is one method for attaining asana siddhi (perfection in posture) that one can test of oneself. Having achieved this level of comfort in the posture, one can then introduce the band has, which will increase the time taken for each breath'.
Ramaswami Yoga for the Three Stages of Life P 127



Ashtanga Rishi Blog post series
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, first day Paschimottanasana to Janu sirsasana A
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, second day  Janu Sirsasana B to Navasana
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, third day Bhuja pindasana to badha konasana
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, fourth day Upavishta konasana to Supta bandhasana
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, fifth day Pasasana to Kapotasana
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, sixth day Supta vajrasana to Ardha Matsyendrasana
Ashtanga Rishi Approach, Seventh Day  Eka pada sirsasana to Tittibhasana C

Rishi series made from asana named after Rishi An alternative take on the Rishi series

See also Srivatsa Ramaswami's December 2012 newsletter for more on the Rishis

23 comments:

susananda said...

But that isn't a series, it's choosing your own postures! Interesting way of working, but what gives David Williams more credibility than Alex Medin, and also is it not possible Guruji used different terminology, or referred to the different things using the same terminology, over the decades he was teaching?

Why not ask Alex about it?
Or if you were here you could ask at conference..... I dread to think, LOL

I've no doubt Guruji gave this way of working to David and Nancy, but a series it is not.

Grimmly said...

Hi Susan.
'It's choosing your own postures'

I agree and imagined 'rishi series' being kind of written in italics or put in brackets on that note of Nancy's. Actually, notice that David puts it in brackets himself in his response to the question. Clearly it's not another sequence but an approach which is why I added that Vinyasa krama 'approach' at the end of the post as being a similar idea.

Sorry, was everyone hoping for yet another group of fancy postures, another 'fixed' sequence...what would be the point of that.

btw a series is the sum of a number of sequences, no, so in a sense..... rishi approach as a summation of the ashtanga sequence...interesting thought.

I'm not suggesting Alex is wrong or less credible (How do you get that?) although he's not actually saying anything here, bit of a fudge, called rishi because it has postures with rishi names...would be like calling 2nd the cute animal series. If you read the post I'm just saying it's not the description I was looking for, not the one that I remembered reading a year or two back that went into some detail about it.

I suspect David asked Jois about the series on one of those later trips, hope to take a workshop with him this year, have a long list of questions.

Alex started in what, mid 90's? In this 'series' of posts I'm looking at a period thirty years earlier.

That said if you get the chance ask Alex about the Yogasanagalu, I believe he translated it i only have it in kanada. Isn't his video being shown tomorrow.

Yeah I'd stand up in conference with one of those long parchment rolls of questions ....kidding, don't think I have any questions for Sharath.

susananda said...

Hey...
No, I wasn't hoping for yet another group of fancy postures, what there is will do for me I think ;-)

The reason I think it seems that you find DW and NG more credible is because I think it's fair to say you seem almost obsessed with the PAST of this practice, and not just in this set of posts. Nicely evidenced by the fact that you wouldn't even have any questions for Sharath (!!!)

I wouldn't know what to ask Alex about the Yogasanagalu, and if I were to get into a convo with him, would probably have questions that are a lot more pertinent to me. We all have our own questions to ask.....

Yes, we'll see the film tomorrow, so I can report on that.

I really enjoyed DW's workshop and stories, but didn't get anything out of it to apply to my own practice.

I saw Claudia and James yesterday, she said you said hi :-))

Grimmly said...

oops feel bad now just seen that my visits topped 500 yesterday (a record for me) on Google Analytics around 1400 going by Bloggers own stats, Only tend to get those kind of numbers on a kapo or jump back vid (VK gets a quarter of that, sigh) perhaps everyone was hoping for a fancy new series.

Isn't this better, MUCH more interesting

Anonymous said...

David's description of Rishi sounds very interesting. I really like the idea of working through the series like that, dropping and adding asanas. Interesting he said about how Rishi is then about the ten most beneficial asanas for that day - if it was you G and your VK practice, what would be your top ten most beneficial poses? By the way, great work finding the info.

susananda said...

Agree it's an interesting and appealing way of working, spending more time on one's weak areas once a week.

There can't be many people hoping for an even crazier series than the 4th, LOL, as few of us can hope to complete that!

Grimmly said...

got to be quick as i'm running late, rishi "series ' takes longer than you think. I said in my reply to your comment Susan that it wasn't a question of credibility. I'm just interested in how it was before it was adapted to the west and great numbers of students.

was ahead of you Eightlimbs, just practiced a 'rishi series' , ten postures fifty ujjayi breaths with retention and bandhas, quite VK ish actually. Will put a post up tomorrow with which ones i chose. Interesting. Will have more time tomorrow so can try it again and slow it down even further.

Ursula said...

Thank you for doing this research Anthony.

I must have this on my blog, too. I'm sure you don't mind if I quote.

And more important I want to exercise it to see how it feels.

Namaste
Ursula

ExuberantBodhisattva said...

Very interesting, Grimmly! 50 breath kapotasana! Sounds like a trip... What about karandavasana. Do you hold each stage for fifty breaths? Sounds like it would take fifty years. I think I will wait for a couple of decades before exploring this approach.

Grimmly said...

Back from work.
Susan, didn't mean to sound disrespectful or 'dismissive' of Sharath, just can't think of anything I would want to ask him. Now Manju however....

Will look forward to your movie update.

Sure Ursula, use whatever you like, you know that.

hi Ecstatic, did think about kapo, something i think I'd like to work on. 50 breaths in Mayurasana was a bit of a bugger though this morning....kidding.

think your suppose to hold karnada for 50 half way back up.

Anonymous said...

I have a workshop with Manju Jois in the summer. Any questions you would like me ask?

susananda said...

Why is Manju so much more interesting than Sharath, who lived in the heart of this tradition for 40+ years?? Never mind, I know why.... because Manju didn't like submitting to authority....

susananda said...

Oh, and you sound even more disrespectful and dismissive of 'Jois'. Could you not at least call him Pattabhi Jois, or even SKPJ? Do you actually have any idea of how disrespectful you sound?? Genuine question.....!

Grimmly said...

Manju = what 50s/60s Ashtanga, before the interaction of the west, i find that interesting.

Iyengar, Ramaswami, Jois, what's the problem

off to the movies.

susananda said...

You're the ONLY one who calls him that - that's the difference.

Clearly, the answer to my question is yes.

Krishna said...

Hi Grimmly

Thanks for all this research in to Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga . I hope you are also able to get some info about Manju's opinion about Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga as he has been doing this practice much before any Westener came and in Ashtanga Community Manju's perspective about this whole Vinyasa sequence is not much spoken about .

Grimmly said...

Susan, if you read through the blog over the years you'll find I use SKJP, Pattabhi Jois and very very occasionally guruji , it kind of depends on the context of the post. Here it's in referencing sense so I use Jois, in more conversational posts I'll tend to use Pattabhi Jois, SKPJ in shorthand or if i don't have time to look up Pattabhi (can never remember where the b's and h's go, always have to check. I also refer to Heidegger as Heidegger rather than Martin Heidegger or Professor Heidegger, whom you know I love. If readers find that or me disrespectful then perhaps they are better off reading another blog.

Grimmly said...

Thank you Krishna Hoping to make a workshop with him this summer.

susananda said...

OK - it always makes me cringe and I don't think the comparison with Heidegger quite makes sense.... but I apologise for going after you yesterday. Feeling argumentative I guess. :)

Anonymous said...

Grimmly,

I'm going to take a few Mysore classes with Manju in Feb at the Jois Shala in Encinitas. I'd also be happy to pose him some questions on your behalf, for the sake of research.

Grimmly said...

Anon and eightlimbs, thank you for the offer to ask Manju a couple of things for me. I'm hoping to take a workshop with him this year too. I guess what I'm curios about was whether he was taught drishti by his father back in the 50's, whether the head was down or up in forward bends. And of course the breath, was it 'breath with sound' back then or ujayii longer exhalations and retention in paschimottanasana say. And also were there vinyasa (jump backs) between sides and variations (janu A-c, marchi A-D) or would the vinyasa come after all the variations of the posture. Those are the kinds of things I'm hoping to ask him, let me know if you beat me to it.

Anonymous said...

My mentor, Manju Jois, explained the practice of a series called "Rishi Sequence", a separate series of Vinyasa in which postures are practiced only with names of Rishis.

http://www.vaidika.com/?p=1631

Grimmly said...

I love the idea of that Anon, seem to remember trying to make a list of all the postures named after rishis and great yoga teachers once but i kind of gave up on it, I should have another go. And that came from Manju too, I wonder if he was Joking or if his father was joking or indeed if krishnamachaya himself was being playful. Thanks for the link, have run it through google translate
translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vaidika.com%2F%3Fp%3D1631

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