I'm seeing this as a companion post to 'Bad Ashtanga Thoughts' posted by dtw on eightlimbsyoga this morning.
(although I've rambled on a bit and don't get around to the connection until the end)
dtw writes
"The problem:
I love Ashtanga, I want to continue practicing it as intended, but over the past few months, I have had nothing but old injuries reappearing, new injuries popping up, constant colds and exhaustion to deal with. My body is shouting at me every time I practice. I know with a young family it is difficult to get the energy to work through a series with all those vinyasas, especially when you are hardly getting any sleep, but I've been pushing through anyway and I think it has finally pushed me over the edge.
The result:
I have ended up searching through my original yoga book - Light on Yoga. I initially wanted to look through Iyengar's advice on routines for fatigue, colds, joint injuries etc... but I ended up looking at how he structured a practice for a typical week and I really looked forward to trying out a practice with no vinyasas for a change, and I'm curious about starting a practice with 10min sirsasana and 10min sarvangasana.
The thought:
Is there a point in you life when you need to make the decision that all those vinyasas and the constant repetition of the same Ashtanga sequences over and over again is no longer suited for you and your lifestyle? Is it time to move on to a different style or take a completely different approach to my practice?
The answer:
? ? ?"
eightlimbsyoga
It feels the opposite for me this week. Over the last couple of years I appear to have moved further and further away from Ashtanga, recently I even wrote about letting go of the practice even Friday Primary, which had stayed constant despite all my ...departures...excavations.
It was simple, I'd had ....a crisis of faith : ) , questions/concerns about some of the perceived or imagined dogma that had seemingly built up around Ashtanga, and at the same time I'd come across Ramaswami's Vinyasa Krama book.
The slower pace of Vinyasa Krama, the longer stays and variations of postures made quite an impact, practice seemed more....profound somehow. That led to trying to find consistency between Krishnamacharya's early and later teaching... well, there is no early and later teaching. We can see all those shoulderstand and headstand variations in that 1938 B&W documentary video pretty much just as we find them in Ramaswami's book. We know Krishnamacharya adapted his approach for Indra Devi and no doubt others. In Yoga Makaranda 1934 Krishnamacharya is writing about long stays in postures, exploring kumbhaka (breath retention ) in postures, just as he is presenting jump back's between each asana and each side of a posture.
(although I've rambled on a bit and don't get around to the connection until the end)
dtw writes
"The problem:
I love Ashtanga, I want to continue practicing it as intended, but over the past few months, I have had nothing but old injuries reappearing, new injuries popping up, constant colds and exhaustion to deal with. My body is shouting at me every time I practice. I know with a young family it is difficult to get the energy to work through a series with all those vinyasas, especially when you are hardly getting any sleep, but I've been pushing through anyway and I think it has finally pushed me over the edge.
The result:
I have ended up searching through my original yoga book - Light on Yoga. I initially wanted to look through Iyengar's advice on routines for fatigue, colds, joint injuries etc... but I ended up looking at how he structured a practice for a typical week and I really looked forward to trying out a practice with no vinyasas for a change, and I'm curious about starting a practice with 10min sirsasana and 10min sarvangasana.
The thought:
Is there a point in you life when you need to make the decision that all those vinyasas and the constant repetition of the same Ashtanga sequences over and over again is no longer suited for you and your lifestyle? Is it time to move on to a different style or take a completely different approach to my practice?
The answer:
? ? ?"
eightlimbsyoga
It feels the opposite for me this week. Over the last couple of years I appear to have moved further and further away from Ashtanga, recently I even wrote about letting go of the practice even Friday Primary, which had stayed constant despite all my ...departures...excavations.
It was simple, I'd had ....a crisis of faith : ) , questions/concerns about some of the perceived or imagined dogma that had seemingly built up around Ashtanga, and at the same time I'd come across Ramaswami's Vinyasa Krama book.
The slower pace of Vinyasa Krama, the longer stays and variations of postures made quite an impact, practice seemed more....profound somehow. That led to trying to find consistency between Krishnamacharya's early and later teaching... well, there is no early and later teaching. We can see all those shoulderstand and headstand variations in that 1938 B&W documentary video pretty much just as we find them in Ramaswami's book. We know Krishnamacharya adapted his approach for Indra Devi and no doubt others. In Yoga Makaranda 1934 Krishnamacharya is writing about long stays in postures, exploring kumbhaka (breath retention ) in postures, just as he is presenting jump back's between each asana and each side of a posture.
When we think about Pattabhi Jois's lineage of practice we look back to his teacher Krishnamacharya and forward to his students and his students students.
By looking back to Krishnamacharya and his Yogasanagalu we can see that he had grouped postures into Primary, Middle and Proficient groups, these contained key postures but from Yoga Makaranda we can see that there were many variations to these postures and that many of the asana could be approached differently, staying for longer, repeating, employing breath retention, exploring variations, these where all options, to my mind they still are.
Krishnamacharya writes of key postures that should be included in daily practice, and given enough time to practice it can be assumed that many of the key postures in the primary group would be included daily. One can see how such an approach to practice develops into a relatively fixed sequence.
I've been practicing Vinyasa Krama for a couple of years now but once I'd learned the sequences of postures, the asana familes ( asymmetric, seated, lotus inversions etc, my Vinyasa Krama practice still ended up having a similar shape to the Ashtanga Primary or Second series I was most familiar with, there's an internal logic to it. My practice is more flexible perhaps, I might stay longer in certain postures and include some variations but it's shape is the same.
Keeping all that in mind we can see pedagogical benefits of a fixed sequence, it's more easily transmittable and you know where you are when your practicing it, each posture leads to the next, that routine too, helps with discipline, a godsend when practicing at home.
And yet at home, once we are familiar with the sequence, we are perhaps free to explore other aspects of the practice, variations perhaps, lengthening the breath even kumbhaka (breath retention), staying in a posture longer we can explore the subtleties of a postures. This strikes me as part of the lineage, the tradition. Yoga is one of the 64 arts of India after all, it is a skilled and creative exploration... an examination.... investigation.
Practical Philosophy.
But I digress...
This week I've gone back to my Primary and 2nd series after a few weeks of exploring Krishnamacharya's Yogasanagalu and Yoga Makaranda approach. I'm attending Richard Freeman's Workshop at the end of the month so thought I'd better brush up on my Ashtanga. I've practiced along with Richard's DVD's a few times on my days off, and has anyone else found this, there seems so much time in every asana. Perhaps it's the pace of his voice, actual runtime isn't that much longer than any of the other DVD's, there seems time to spare to actually savour the postures (actually I find this a little in Sharath's, one of the quicker runtimes at 60mins yet it never seems rushed).
I've also been watching a few of Mark Darby's video's and taking the time to explore the internal work going on in some of the postures, Breath with Richard, bandhas with Darby or breath with Darby and bandhas with Richard for that matter.... and I'm reminded how rich Ashtanga is in teachers, what a wonderful thing the certified teacher system is, what a glorious accident.
David Swenson said something in the section of the Wild Yogi interview I posted
"To understand Pattabhi Jois you need to look at my generation of teachers, because we are parts of Pattabhi Jois" (do look at the context to this statement in yesterdays post).
Certification is like tenure, you can't be fired, you get to investigate and explore the practice, rediscover aspects that were passed on to some but perhaps not all and in different combinations, some got this, some that it seems, or teaching that was misplaced, or implicit in the background teaching passed from Krishnamacharya to Pattabhi Jois.
And I'm particularly interested in how those certified and senior teachers have developed their relationship with their practice over twenty, thirty years and more.
And I'm particularly interested in how those certified and senior teachers have developed their relationship with their practice over twenty, thirty years and more.
Practice as rediscovery of practice.
One of the things I mentioned earlier about coming back to Ashtanga was that it felt easier than I expected, the long stays in the 'Ashtanga Rishi approach' I explored, the variations in Vinyasa Krama, the pelvis and bandha work I'd been exploring with Richard's teaching it all helped, and no doubt a few years experience under my belt, technique a little more polished, shifting weight better, that kind of thing, helps avoid strain.
Exploring other approaches to practice can be a good thing, if you come back to Ashtanga, you'll bring things back with you as well as a broader perspective, travel is always an education (was that James or Shaw).
But the point as to why I consider this a companion post to dtw's ( finally getting there ), is that the Ashtanga is feeling good.
The Osteoarthritis thing I suffer from now, Ashtanga seems to manage it quite well suprisingly. I start off my first Sury hardly able to touch my knees and in a great deal of pain. I spend a little longer in downward dog ( Krishnamacharya talks of 15 minutes here on occasion but I'm just taking a few extra breaths in the first one, 10 or so) by the third I'm no longer stepping back, by the fifth no longer stepping forward but beginning to float. By the end of the Sury B's I'm moving much more freely. The extra heat generated helps no doubt but perhaps it's also something to do with upward and downward dog and this follows through the whole of the series. I revisited Ashtanga to prepare for Richard's workshop but I may well stick with it again because it seems to be suiting my body.
Also I have this niggling pain in my right knee from an operation back in my 20's, Ashtanga Primary helps, just as Vinyasa Krama Asymmetric did, but again with the added benefit of a little more heat generated by the practice, England is a cold country ...even in the middle of summer this year.
And you don't have to be all chop chop to keep the heat up, intensify the ujjayi, include some kumbhaka perhaps and you can take a little longer in any posture you wish and still keep the body warm.
So physically Ashtanga seems to be working for me but there's something else.
It seems to be ...disciplining my life more. And this I don't understand. I have a disciplined practice, three hours of asana, pranayama and mediation every morning and another hour, hour and a half in the evening and yet ever since I came back from Santorini I've been eating rubbish, drinking a couple of glasses of wine or martini where as before If I drank anything at all it was so watered down it was like Ribena. A week of Ashtanga and I'm automatically watching what I'm eating, drinking more, it's all very curious. Something to do with the focus of the more fixed routine perhaps?
The problem of course is pranayama. Where does Ashtanga leave my 80 pranayamas. I've gone the pre practice route, doing 40 there before the Sury's and then including them in my inversions at the end of practice which sets me up nicely for a short mediation practice, still not ideal, more thought required.
After the workshop I'll explore shorter Ashtanga practices again, one day up to navasana, the next day the second half of Primary, day after that say 2nd to the end of backbends etc. Still Ashtanga but less postures so I can still practice them as I may want to, longer stays, variations, Kumbhaka occasionally but with more time for pranayama and meditation practice, an integrated practice.
I quoted dtw at the beginning of this post
"Is there a point in you life when you need to make the decision that all those vinyasas and the constant repetition of the same Ashtanga sequences over and over again is no longer suited for you and your lifestyle? Is it time to move on to a different style or take a completely different approach to my practice?"
You could move on to a different style but no doubt sooner or latter will find problems/issues/concerns there also, it seems likely that no style suits everyone all of the time and I've never agreed with 'fitting yourself to the style'.
Seems to make sense to explore your approach and find compromise (ashtanga is all about compromise, why this posture rather than that one, why this many asana rather than more or less). Ashtanga Vinyasa Krama has enough depth that the approach to it can be adapted one way or another to anyone. You can practice it full-on as a health and fitness, physical transformation exercise or as a concentration/meditation discipline and of course as both together with balanced or changing emphasis.
David said we should get on and practice rather than speaking about it...he has a point, time for practice.
and some Rilke
The Departure of the Prodigal Son (New poems)
To go forth now
from all the entanglement
that is ours and yet not ours,
that, like the water in an old well,
reflects us in fragments, distorts what we are.
From all that clings like burrs and brambles—
to go forth
and see for once, close up, afresh,
what we had ceased to see—
so familiar it had become.
To glimpse how vast and how impersonal
is the suffering that filled your childhood.
Yes, to go forth, hand pulling away from hand.
Go forth to what? To uncertainty,
to a country with no connections to us
and indifferent to the dramas of our life.
What drives you to go forth? Impatience, instinct,
a dark need, the incapacity to understand.
To bow to all this.
To let go—
even if you have to die alone.
Is this the start of a new life?
17 comments:
I can relate to what eightlimbsyoga writes about.
I did ashtanga daily for about three years and then completely stopped it at the end of last year when I met with the Synergy style of yoga. It is softer, calmer, similar to vk in a sense perhaps. Shorter, more effective practice, gaining energy rather than spending it.
I think it is not just the fact that ashtanga is challenging... but small mistakes in the practice accumulating over time and causing problems. It is useful then to change style and see things from another point of view.
From eight limbs' description my guess would be that he might be breathing too much (dizziness, exhaustion, and hunger after practice), and keeping his belly tense all the time (inhibiting the immune system thus getting cold often).
Those are scary symptoms described by 8 limbs, but perhaps they're not from 'doing Ashtanga'. More likely from doing 'too much Ashtanga'. Stepping back a bit, and re-establishing his boundary might be a good thing to do; then letting the boundaries move with time and practice. (I assume there's no teacher involved, so he's having to 'self-prescribe the dosage'.
It's all a matter of personal opinion but mine would be that that approach would be much better than ditching the practice. I love belonging to lineage and having a chartered course to follow. I would drift around like some sort of asana-nomad without it. Bit of this, bit of that ...
Totally understand your pranayama dilemma. A teachers' guidance is great for resolving that. Wonder if you have enough time with Richard to get his thoughts on it?
Another thought on getting run down; Krishanmacharya would repeatedly stress the importance of sleep. Also, the Ashtanga system, as you well know, factors in rest days. I guess it's easy to overlook how important these are when you're on a roll, then you crash and burn downstream.
Maybe look at the workman, before blaming the tools?
Hope i'm not sounding too much of a critic, obviously, I don't even know the guy.
Great blog Mr Grimmly, my favourite website in fact.
If you're feeling run down and acquiring injuries, it seems sensible to not be doing an intensive ashtanga practice. Chill out, go for a walk instead.
I have had lower back problems in the past from doing 2nd series backbends. I did pilates for a few months and that really helped. Another one was wrist sprains from surya namaskaras - I had to take it really carefully and just stay in the "plank" pose and so on.
With regards to time, it seems to be the biggest issue when you want to include pranayamas and meditation. I'm just doing 15 minutes or so pranayama at the moment but that doesn't give me enough time to finish a whole series in the morning, so I do a bit more in the evening.
Just to throw something into the mix, the mysore class I was going to in Manchester started with 15 minutes pranayama, which everyone did together, and then people did their individual asana practice. On four out of five days, we did a different pranayama - ujjiya with retentions on monday, nadi shodana on tuesday, wednesday was kaphalbati (with retention on the last inhalation) and finally surya/chedana bhedana on the thursday (friday was primary led with no pranayama).
Ditto. Nice.
Lucky you going to Richard in London... envy here, the good type... :-)
Great post, Grimm. Just one thing: Swenson is neither certified or authorized.
I tend to be in agreement Kecskeméti, a lot to be gained from exploring other styles perhaps just as taking workshops from other teachers might give new perspectives and develop our approach. Synergy style I'm guessing your referring to Simon Borg-Oliver's teaching, I have his book, interesting stuff. He has a new online course I believe.
I tend to agree Steve, cutting back or slowing down can be a way to go, exploring other branches of Krishnamacharya's 'lineage' strikes me as a good option too though. I used to think I was exploring different practices but it strikes me now as all the same asana tradition breath and bandhas, though we might call the different shifts of focus by different names.
Good point re Krishnamacharya stressing sleep and of course later he would stress taking rests (mini savasana) whenever the heartbeat would begin to speed up or the breath become ragged. The rest days seem to have come in with Pathabhi Jois but then again he would have them practice twice, primary and 2nd in the morning and primary and advanced in the afternoon back in the day, so perhaps a bit contradictory. K is quite clear in his early work about adapting the practice to your age and body type, less postures, longer stays different approaches to breathing perhaps all part of the tradition.
Like that Rob, take a walk instead ; )
Funny enough my back is fine in backbends, forward bends are where I notice it most but the doctor was more than happy for me to be doing yoga and strengthening the muscles of the back. It hurts from when i wake up in the morning until half way through the Sury B's.
i think I mentioned in the post I'm exploring 40 pranayamas before practice and then the rest in the finsihing sequence, inversions and jnana mudra (nice surprise, Richard talks of Ujjayi pranayama in jnana mudra on his 2nd series dvd).
Nice idea to spread some of the different pranayamas over different days just as one might with some of the asana variations.
thanks for commenting
One thing more, i fell asleep in post 2nd savasana this morning....can be a problem if your planning on a post practice pranayama and meditation
Hi Caludia, another mexican soap post ; )
Good point Megan, I had him down under 'senior' teachers and of course any long term practitioners. Hopefully Richard's workshop will be the first of man. I'm lucky in that London (and Oxford) is close enough to make the most of all these excellent teachers who visit, haven't made the most of that in the past, and of course John Scott is down Devon way.
Yes, Simon's. And yes, there's a new online course, quite handy given he's based in Australia :)
Now I tend to think that, if ashtanga doesn't work for someone, it is usually better to leave it for a while and try a different style, a new practice, rather than try to repair the old practice. Except maybe when someone has really lots of experience (which is really not the same as being able to do advanced asana).
grimmly, excellent posting! Question: you write regarding pranayama that you are "including them in my inversions at the end of practice." Do you mean you are restraining the breath in inversions, or are including pranayama after your inversions?
Also, it occured to me this morning, that the practice gets more refined once we have developed the proper muscles, such that at first the practice is all strain and force, but over time, years perhaps (for me) the body resets with a core of muscle specific for each action, so that you are isolating each asana and finally finding the ease and repose...
thanks Anon, yes ujjayi pranayama during headstand and shoulder stand, this is an option Krishnamacharya and Ramaswami included. Headstand I aim for two breaths a minute, short kumbhakas, only 5-10 seconds. Shoulderstand there's an automatic jalandhara bandha (chin lock) so I'll do my regular Ujjayi pranayama with mantra on the retained inhalation (mantra takes 15-20 secs).
i agree about the proper muscles making a difference, the right muscle in the right place doing the job intended. Something to remember when taking on a new posture, noticed this a lot in Vinyasa Krama, sometimes the variation would be quite subtle but you would notice a slightly different muscle working in your arm or leg say that you didn't know you had or a different area of the same muscle, a little higher or lower perhaps, fascinating. One of Ramaswami's arguments for exploring the different variations of asana of course....not to build muscle so much but to improve the circulation to every inch of the body.
I really hear where 8 limbs is coming from. Having young kids, I believe his 2 are 6 months and 2 years, is incomparable when it comes to energy expenditure. I spent 2 or 3 seasons planting trees on the West Coast and it's nothing compared to the demands of young kids...especially 2 of them. Like running a marathon every day endlessly. There isn't much in 'traditional' ashtanga refering to practice while raising young kids....might be because the women were raising the kids and not practicing yoga while doing so. Iyengar even admits as much in Yoga Wisdom & Practice. I didn't start practicing until my kids were 17 & 15. I was too much in survival mode to make the leap. But now that I'm almost a year into (almost) daily practice I look back and wish I could have done some..any...yoga however little, along the way. I had done some in my teens so I knew deep in my bones what my body needed. I just couldn't justify it at the time. So...I guess what I'm saying is adapting to circumstances is especially important when young kids are concerned. They make unbelievable demands on you on every level. Don't push to achieve or progress according to an external ideal. Ashtanga will probably precipitate a healing crisis, which might explain some of the colds and other symptoms. So go easy and take rest!
John Scott said in a yogajournal.com interview that I think is relevant to eightlimbsyoga's dilemma of being a father with responsibilities. John writes of his practice:
"YJ: Tell me about your practice.
JS: I'll start my first day of the week with Second Series, then the rest of the week will be Third Series and my little bit of Fourth, and then I'll finish the week off on Friday with the Primary Series. However, being a householder with many responsibilities, something may present itself that requires immediate attention, and I will have to sacrifice my practice. If I can fit in the Suryanamaskars, then I will. I don't feel guilty if I miss a practice because I know tomorrow is another day."
I highlight that even one like John must leave off practicing (or shorten it up) as the case may be. I think it is wisdom that allows one to do this, or to decide to break up the routine to fit to life's callings. A short practice can be as much or better than a long and sordid ordeal done because one thinks one has to for some philosophical or dogmatic reason.
Anyway... I noticed eightlimbsyoga re-posted on this topic yesterday due to all the comments here and I wish him the best.
Thanks DY, always amazed that anyone managed to keep a practice up once they have kids. i have a friend a colleague at work, who I introduced to practice and his young daughter comes into the room in the early morning while he's working on his Sury's and starts doing them beside him and/or telling him how he's doing it wrong...how do you concentrate in that situation.
Can't decide if a strict, fixed sequence is a help or a hindrance.
Bothe krishnamacharya and jois do adress the issue of the householder though, they both give minimum postures and say the rest is up to you and how much time you have available.
Just noticed Kino has released an online beginners course covering the Sury's, standing and the final three finishing postures.
I think you could cut the sury's down to three each, trim standing a little, add in paschi and purvottanasana and move on the those last three finishing and your good to go, what's that, half 20-30 minutes?
David Swenson's Short programs are excellent too, 10, 30 and 45 minutes.
Great quote from John Scott Anon, thanks for that
" I dont feel guilty'
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