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| Man in Despair: Gillham park Kansas City, MO - No need to despair, vajrasana works |
Nope, still no forward bends.
Bugger.
As soon as I jumped through and sat down in dandasana I could fee the same lower back pain and how it's come around now to the frount as well, reaching down into my groin...
psoas you think?
Savasana for a minute to think,
"Stupid Ashtanga and it's fixed sequence", in Vinyasa Krama I'd just avoid those troublesome postures and practice something else from it's vast tool chest. But then again, don't I practice my Ashtanga as a Vinyasa Krama and haven't we talked recently about adapting the sequence when necessary....., it's all kosha.
OK, so no more forward bends........
flicking through Primary,
"Nope, nope.....nope, nope...., no, no. no. certainly not....nope....again no...."
Take out the forward bends from Primary and there's not a lot left.
Damnit
And Manju's TT in Crete getting ever closer ( August).
Do I cancel?
No, of course not, there'll be a Primary of sorts (might make it more interesting), to hell with vanity.
OK. what about 2nd series.....Yes, no, yes, yes, yes, yes Yep, yes, sure why not, probably, again probably ......no way, definite no, again no, maybe, no YES, yes, yes......again yes............ : )
Ran through second and apart from the leg behind head work ( I did Maha mudra and badha konasana instead), 2nd is pretty doable. Still not sure about the twists, the merest nod at a twist for now but Intermediate series seems possible. I can do some forward bends in vajrasan as counter to all the back bending, for some reason vajrasana is fine (anyone know why?).
And there's still pranayama and pratyahara and meditation....
Perhaps on Fridays I can do a symbolic Primary, jump in and out of the postures and instead of bending forward just drop my chin and do pranayama instead, a kind of Yoga Makaranda(ish) version of Primary. At least that will keep me jumping back and through and I can still practice along to Manju's DVD, be somewhat on the same page at least for when the workshop comes around.
And just hope that after six weeks of no forward bends I'll be OK again for a full week of Primary and all that adjustment/assist work.
Six weeks, plenty of time no.....no?
19 comments:
Always good to bury the self pitying post away on a Sunday. Should be Ramaswami's Newsletter tonight/tomorrow...30 days has September, April JUNE....yep.
HI There, Sorry to hear about your pains. I recently did something similar to myself around the hip/hamstring/groin/lower back. Found that Ramaswami's bow sequence helped (and doing cat/cow before suryas). For forward bends, I "fell" forward with my chin jutting out and only went as far as the hip rotation would comfortably allow (really keeping drishti on tops of toes). Also, paid close attention in chataranga to really make sure my toes were pushing into the ground and in updog to get the best alignment from shoulders to toes (no twisting heels). the pain/pull has been going away and getting better, almost totally gone. hope you can find something similar. - Shabtai
What about an Ashtanga oil bath to help relax? Personally I haven't tried it, but many have felt great benefits. If anything it will make a great post
greetings ....
sorry to hear of your injury. I've been so preoccupied with a second injury (ancient unstable right shoulder causing severe tendon damage) that I've barely had time to read blogs or remember by lumbar disc injury of late November. In fact after 7 months I don't feel back pain anymore, though I hear it is best to treat it delicately for a full year. Have you tried arching back throughout the day? My physio had me doing this every hour when the injury was new. Arch back a few times to your full capacity. The Mackenzie Method is the name. If it is anything to do with a slightly bulging disc this pushes the cushion back into place and eventually it stabilizes.
Hello,
I spent an hour and a half this morning just loosening up my right hip which always locks up on me. I'm on break now and will begin my Primary Ashtanga flow (I'm committed now LOL). It's the yoga for my yoga. Listening to the body I develop the practice that nurtures it to the next level (for me) for today's practice. Does that make sense? Stretching out in the evening doesn't do it for me in the morning. When time is short, I still tend to the hips for 15 minutes before I begin my Primary flow. I hope you work through it in time for Manju TT. All the best, and thanks for all of your posts.
Hi Grim, sorry about your back! I remember when I hurt my hamstring attachment and that same flicking through primary, no, no, no, definitely not, maybe, no. Such a drag. You turned me onto some vinyasa krama backbendy stuff that I did instead of primary for a couple of months that saved me from losing my practice altogether. I'm still grateful! In my opinion, you should NOT cancel, you should take your injured self (if it is still a problem) to Manju and say, yo, fix me up! :) But seriously, don't drop out, go as you are. My 2 cents. Are you putting any heat on it? Don't do anything that hurts, not even a little! That's my take, anyway.
Sorry you've had a rough time of it too Shabtai, yes Ramaswami's Bow as well as the meditative sequence work for me too. The Ashtanga Backbend section at the beginning of 2nd series is an abridged version. Forward bends in vajrasana seem ok and give me a counter to the backbends, Supine knees to chest (wind relieving posture : ) does the same. We'll get there.
Never tried it either, seems so damned messy. But why not and as you say would make an interesting post, will look into.....now who did that great post on oil baths?
yes the arching helps, used to do that for the osteoarthritis that affects the other side (still do it occasionally at work). That seems to have calmed down recently, perhaps since the weather has warmed up...or perhaps the pain on the left is masking the older pain on the right : )
Will try it again for this, thanks for the reminder, back bending does seem to give some relief.
Sorry about your shoulder.
I couldn't decide whether to blog on this, don't like to winge but I've been told the blog is always so damned positive about practice (my own at least0 and that I've been lucky......seems only fair to share when it's not going well. I have been lucky overall, crap month but was probably owed one.
thanks Zendio, yes I do something similar, Ramaswami's shortened Tadasana before the sury's. There's a little of everything in that and it's a good place to listen. As you say, 'yoga for my yoga'. Tells me whether to focus on twists or backbends a little more in my ashtanga practice, whether to sail through Standing or really milk it, whether to add in an extra asana or not. There's a tentative half forward bend in tadasna that tells me to steer clear of them still, mostly I've been listening but then you think you've taken it easy long enough or that standing felt good so you can step it up a little...... Important to really listen, whether in something like tadasna, or the Sury's or those first few postures in the standing sequence.
Yes I remember but forgot it took months to pass. That's the thing, I keep thinking this will pass if I go a little easier for a few days or a week but should probably accept that it could take months and that that's OK. The Manju thing has played on my mind I guess, wrote a countdown in the corner of my practice notebook, was OK with the virus and then the rash, 10 weeks, 9, 8, Back pain, 7 a little better perhaps, 6 pain still there..... bugger
Not very good at doing depression, manage half a day at best.... as you (and others) have said, go to Manju as I am, however I am and with a half arsed Primary even....might make the perfect Guineapig.
Wanted to ask him about how his father used to treat the 'patients' who came to him, perfect opportunity.
You are having bad luck with illnesses and injuries G in the run up to Manju's TT. I wonder if they are somehow connected (just a thought). I read an interesting book that might appeal to you - "Your Body Speaks Your Mind" by Deb Shapiro.
As you get older your going to have to come to terms with Ashtanga yoga and that it will eventually destroy your body.. it was created for teenagers..Nobody, Including Jois or Krishanamcharya did this series all their life..The ego wants to continue but the body says no.. You are well trained, consider " Viniyoga" and be content with not always having to progress. Doing the same sequences over and over leads to imbalance. These "series" lead to wanting to push and pushing takes us from the now..You will achieve nothing spiritually from these practices only a swollen head and inflamed joints. I have only seen body obsessed narcissists arise from this practice. Look at these posts and see the asana possessed people, pushing , pulling and harming..It will be crushing the day you have to let go of your practice, might as well let go now and be done with it before your spine, hips etc let go for you... It seems this might be happening already and is a clear sign. .
Todd I have so many problems with what your saying here, let me go through them one by one.
1. 'it ( I'm assuming you mean Ashtanga) was created for teenagers.
It's true that Krishnamacharya taught young boys but if you look at Yoga Makaranda or Yogasanagalu we don't find a fixed sequence, we also find long stays in certain postures recommended as well as breath retentions. It seems K would put the boys in a posture and often have them chant mantras and slokas while in the asana. In Yogasanagalu we find the asana divided up into beginner, middle and advanced postures and K. was clearly interested in exploring a vast range of asana we also know that in the same period he was practicing a lot of Yoga Therapy, Indra Devi the most famous of course. There is the starting and finishing of an asana from standing so that every movement is linked to an inhalation and exhalation but we find that in viniyoga and Vinyasa krama also although we might start and finish a groups of postures that way rather than every single asana.
So, the fixed Ashtanga sequences your referring too as we know them now don't seem to be what K. was teaching to the young boys at the Mysore palace. Pattabhi Jois seems to have taught something similar but perhaps a little more fixed and included the suryanamascaras when he began teaching at the sanskrit college. There were not young boys but young men. We also know he was teaching all ages and adapting the practice to the needs of his other students and patients.
I think the idea of Ashtanga we have now seems to have come with the encounter of the West, with Nancy Gilgoff and David Williams in the beginning, Young people seems to have become drawn to it and the more athletic aspect perhaps become more focussed upon for a while.
I think it's true that people of all ages drawn to the practice as it's grown in popularity have, in the past, tried to approach Ashtanga in the same way as those in their twenties but I think that's changing somewhat now. Perhaps we're coming full circle and the practice itself is opening up a little more and there's a recognition of it's adaptability.
2. Doing the same sequences over and over leads to imbalance
If you look again at primary series you see a collection of subroutines that include an wide range and variety of movements. I've found it, taken slowly, to be an excellent Vinyasa krama practice. I might add an extra posture here or there or just focus my attention more on a particular posture or group of postures if I feel it's what my body requires that day. Each asana is followed by a kriya in the transition out of the posture and into the next. Annoys me when people say there are no backbends in Ashtanga, what else is the upward dog that we do what thirty, forty times....interestingly David Williams I believe stays in upward dog for five breaths. And of course Jois himself stresses in Yoga Mala that we (as householders) do what we can, we don't have to practice the full sequence (although many seem to have forgotten that).
3.These "series" lead to wanting to push and pushing takes us from the now.
That's not exactly true is it, it's not the series themselves but how they are taught and I think there may have been a focus for a long time on progressing through the series, that says perhaps more about our mentality in the West perhaps. I think it's beginning to change, a shift in focus. But still, I know several Ashtangi's who are quite content to work at where they are rather than grasp at new postures. I'm happy to do a Vinyasa krama modified Primary and 2nd series these days although I will occasionally add an extra posture or two from third as an extension of an asana group just as i did in Vinyasa Krama.
There are some drawbacks to a fixed sequence but great benefits too. I've come around to the thinking that the benefits outweigh the draw back and so have gone back to a fixed sequence while seeking to balance the drawback with a more flexible approach.
4. You will achieve nothing spiritually from these practices only a swollen head and inflamed joints.
Again , this depends on how you approach the practice rather than the practice itself. You can be very full of yourself practicing other styles and get swollen joints there too. One of the benefits of a fixed system is an excellent awareness of the body in relation to those asana you practice everyday. So many if not most of the Ashtangi's I know of who practice everyday end up building their lives around their practice, that ninety minutes of concentration and attention which seems to seep into the rest of their day. We practice six days a week, go to bed early, take more care in our eating, drink less, eat less. Finding such value in nothing more than jumping about on a mat puts other aspects of our lives into perspectives. When something so simple and with so few requirements gives us such rewards other desires seem less attractive. It's an excellent beginning along any spiritual path I would argue. Ashtngi's read some spiritual texts and begin to explore other, that too is becoming more encouraged as is chanting ( a requirement in Mysore now) and pranayama is becoming more widely considered. So many Ashtangi's I know of also explore or at least have some curiosity for some form of meditation practice.
5. I have only seen body obsessed narcissists arise from this practice.
There are those of course but I see something very different and perhaps your obsessed narcissists will turn into something other even if a little later than sooner.
6. I did let go of the practice and was happily practicing Vinyasa Krama, I came back to Ashtanga because I began to see that it wasn't the practice itself that was a problem but rather how I was approaching the practice. Now I take more of a VInyasa krama approach to my Ashtanga and there seem to be a better balance while regaining some of the strengths and uniqueness of Ashtanga.
I think it's a practice in transition, still in growth and development as are we.
I've been quite the critic of the practice or of aspects of it at least in the past. It's easy to focus on the more obvious temptations of the practice and be critical and miss much else of what else is going on. I still believe that Krishnamacharya's teaching was consistent throughout his life and that it's still possible to focus on what is essential in his teaching in whichever style we practice. I'm sure Viniyoga, Iyengar and even Vinyasa krama practitioners get wrapped up in their idea of their style and can get just as blinkered as any Ashtangi.
One more thing I want to add here.
For some, many perhaps, Ashtanga may always be a mostly physical activity, something they can fit into their day with nothing more than a mat and that will improve their, health fitness and flexibility. They may have no interest in other aspects of Yoga, just happy to focus on the shapes.
I still think that's something rather wonderful.
Turned this into a post Todd, hope you don't mind, I think your criticisms are fair enough from one perspective, I've had most of the same criticisms myself at different times but I think it's easy to see only those criticisms of the practice, the worst case examples. Ashtanga can be as you describe and that can be fine if your young and fit, treat it as an extreme sport, why not, but it doesn't have to be like that, not only like that ( if it ever really is) I believe it is a lot more besides.
Go to manju. He will help. It's an opportunity to learn something you might not otherwise have learned from him that will help you in future. I had a back injury when starting to practice a few years ago. Its a gift -- though it doesnt always feel that way--because it gives me an added layer of connection to and need for the practice as i explore how to improve and maintain the health of my back. You will get better and you will enjoy the course.
Thanks Anon, and yes, will still be going to Manju's. I think I was most worried about the others in the class and being a bit of a liability but I guess they are going to get people with injuries if they ever teach so not a bad thing perhaps, hopefully will be a lot better by then anyway. I feel the same way about injuries, they make the practice even more interesting. This one is getting a little tiresome though.
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